BAD PILOTS

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Doug Carman
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:10 pm

BAD PILOTS

Post by Doug Carman »

I was one of the last to leave and checked the flight shack. There were SEVERAL unfinished cards in there. We usually have nobody filling in flight cards and you have to do it yourself! Before you leave, or after packing the hangar, go back and make sure all that is done. I am thinking of suggesting that any unfinished cards be filled in with a 3000' tow and a 2 hour flight.

Also only about 7 were left to pack the hangar, and we found ZH with a twisted tail tire (from turning without lifting the tail!!!!) Rob stayed until the last minute to fix it.

Be good!
Kenneth Voort
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 8:15 am

Re: BAD PILOTS

Post by Kenneth Voort »

Doug Carman wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:51 pm I was one of the last to leave and checked the flight shack. There were SEVERAL unfinished cards in there. We usually have nobody filling in flight cards and you have to do it yourself! Before you leave, or after packing the hangar, go back and make sure all that is done.
It is my understanding that this is a new problem? That pre-covid, there would reliably be someone in the cottage noting when planes came back? Is this perhaps a hopefully temporary adjustment we all need to deal with?
Doug Carman wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:51 pm I am thinking of suggesting that any unfinished cards be filled in with a 3000' tow and a 2 hour flight.
I wouldn't suggest that myself. Rather, I would suggest an "UNFILLED TOW CARD" charge on accounts that would prompt a response. It would be much more clear when reviewing my account, if I suchly erred myself. A 2 hour flight and 3k tow would just feel like A) a slap in the face, and B) a money grab. Were I billed for 3k and 2 hours, for a 1k circuit practice flight, I would find myself somewhere between angry and livid. While I understand the bookkeeping difficulties this forgetfulness portends, I also understand that the same people who land and then scamper around helping the flight line and so forget to do the tow card thing, are the same people who make this mistake, because I am one of them.
Doug Carman wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:51 pm Also only about 7 were left to pack the hangar, and we found ZH with a twisted tail tire (from turning without lifting the tail!!!!) Rob stayed until the last minute to fix it.
I am likely partially guilty of that - turning and not lifting the tail. I was the one who noticed that skidding tailwheel, but I had no idea why it happened. Rob even gave me a tongue lashing about turning the ships without lifting the tail. To be fair, I think 7 people staying was pretty good, considering the turnout today.
Doug Carman wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:51 pm Be good!
Everyone's trying - don't forget that.

Also, I am the only Bad Pilot. I have no clue why York accepted me as a member.
With grace and beauty, Strength and cunning She’ll stay aloft — until; Inevitably — she loses. And must glide earthward. And lie there helpless, Lovesick for the sky.
Dave Bax
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:53 am

Re: BAD PILOTS

Post by Dave Bax »

We will keep the unfinished cards, that are not obvious to complete, in the shack.
Any member aware of a flight without a card, should simply place a white card in the shack with the members name in place.
Any member with an unfinished card in the shack is grounded until they complete any/all of their cards in the shack.
As per it always has been, no take-off unless there is a white card prepared in the shack.

It is not really a covid issue anymore:
Weekdays, with minimal members present, there is no issue in keeping track.
Weekends, there should be NO FLYING UNTIL A LINE-CHIEF APPOINTED (as per both normal operations and restricted operations(covid) guide.
The line-chief needs to place someone in/near the hut at all times (possibly himself, but ideally someone else).
Doug Carman
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:10 pm

Re: BAD PILOTS

Post by Doug Carman »

My tongue-in-cheek suggestion is obviously not very good. Please follow Dave's directions. We did push things on Sunday as we were short-handed due to father's day and we had lots of students and lots of members went off to soar for a while.
We sometimes have similar shortages when long weekends take members off to cottages and similar.

One solution that Jock used to track the cards, was to have a golf cart with the cards in it and kept it at the launch line. That way nobody took off or landed without the card being handy to fill in. It did require someone to be there and do it, however.
Stan Martin
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:12 pm

Re: BAD PILOTS

Post by Stan Martin »

The last pilot in any plane should be responsible for making sure their plane is in the hangar before they leave, just as if it was their own plane. Planes do not have to wait until the end of the day in many cases. So before you leave check to see if there is another pilot for that plane. If not, ask to see if you can get help putting it away. Help is often available, if not immediately. If you have to stay somewhat longer than your flight to get that done, that is the price of flying that day. Be prepared for it.

There are some planes that come out and never fly. Before you leave ask someone if you can help put some of them away. That will let those left know there mabe a problem later on.
Kenneth Voort
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 8:15 am

Re: BAD PILOTS

Post by Kenneth Voort »

That sounds like a great idea, but I don't think it's realistic. Most days, the order in which the hangar is packed is not determined until the end of the day, so you can't arbitrarily pack the plane away when you're finished with it - you may end up putting it at the back of the hangar, when for some reason it should be at the front. Hanger packing is a group decision essentially, and you are suggesting we make it an individual decision.

As for staying until the plane you last flew is hangared, considering the above, this is where it becomes a problem for many people. Some days the hangar is packed at 3PM, other days it's packed at 7PM (for example). We can't expect members to wait around for some indeterminate amount of time when they have other commitments. It's hard enough to get members with families to come out as it is, and a policy like you're suggesting would make it even more difficult. If that's the price of flying that day, I fear many people simply won't bother, as it could mean reneging on pre-existing commitments.

Some kind of reward or recognition for staying to pack the hangar often would work maybe, but I have no idea what that could be. But generally, I think more carrot and less stick is the way to go on this issue.
With grace and beauty, Strength and cunning She’ll stay aloft — until; Inevitably — she loses. And must glide earthward. And lie there helpless, Lovesick for the sky.
Stan Martin
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:12 pm

Re: BAD PILOTS

Post by Stan Martin »

I disagree. Too much attention is paid to which aircraft are left in which order. Rough guess most days the front third is pulled out regardless.

There is no magic to the packing. It is care that counts and a small amount of observation when packing. We should all have that skill or be able to develop it. If we can fly the skies we should have the smarts to be able to fly the hangar, if not intimidated out of the job. Every pilot should be able to understand what is required and fix it the first or second time if it is just not quiet right.
Kenneth Voort
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 8:15 am

Re: BAD PILOTS

Post by Kenneth Voort »

Stan Martin wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:33 pm Too much attention is paid to which aircraft are left in which order. Rough guess most days the front third is pulled out regardless.
On that, we agree. It's something I don't quite understand - there's plenty of room for all of our ships, even without extreme precision, and a third to a half of them are pulled out every flying day regardless. But unless and until everyone else agrees with that, I'm trying offer my useless suggestions to work with the way we do things now, not the way we should be doing them in Ken's magic fantasy bizarro world.

But I still think hangar packing should be left to the end of the day, for myriad reasons. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to stick around that long - and there's no easy solution to that problem.
With grace and beauty, Strength and cunning She’ll stay aloft — until; Inevitably — she loses. And must glide earthward. And lie there helpless, Lovesick for the sky.
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