Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

General Club Information in the last 180 days - Posts open to Club members only
Kenneth Voort
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 8:15 am

Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by Kenneth Voort »

Hello everyone,

After originally training at York back in 1995, I've finally found myself with enough free time and money to take up flying again. I'm nearly finished my PPL training and I'm also eager to get soaring again (obviously, else I wouldn't be here :lol: ). I was hoping to last year, but that pandemic thing kinda screwed that up. From what I understand, it should take a dozen or so flights to retrain someone in my position, and I'd like to get that started this week, if possible.

The club's open and at least one of the 2-33's are operational so it's certainly possible. I'd like to do as much training as possible over a few days - preferably weekdays, when I imagine the 2-33 wouldn't be in as high demand as it would be on weekends - I don't want to end up monopolizing it. If it's doable, I'd like to limit myself to a single instructor, to limit close contact as much as possible; I'm not overly concerned, but this seems the socially responsible way to approach it. I've had my first covid shot, if that makes any difference.

Thursday is looking quite nice so far, is there an instructor around these parts who's willing and able to take me on that day?
With grace and beauty, Strength and cunning She’ll stay aloft — until; Inevitably — she loses. And must glide earthward. And lie there helpless, Lovesick for the sky.
John Brake
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:51 am

Re: Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by John Brake »

Hi Kenneth,

I can't help with the instruction part (yet, I'm not checked out), but I have a few questions for you. I'm one of the two TC Authorised Persons at the field; it's our job to make sure that you're legal to fly.

1) When is the last time you flew a glider as PIC?
2) When did you write the PSTAR test for your PPL training? You must provide proof of passing within the last 5 years.
3) Do you have an Aviation Document Booklet?
4) What is the date of your last medical? Category?

Welcome back !
Kenneth Voort
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 8:15 am

Re: Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by Kenneth Voort »

Thanks John, I'm on my mobile without my logbook or access to me Transport Canada files at the moment, but I'll answer everything as accurately ad I can

The last time I flew a glider as PIC was August of 1996.

The PSTAR, I wrote that in June or July of last year. I can look it up if necessary.

Yes, I have an aviation document booklet.

My category 1 medical was renewed in November of last year.
With grace and beauty, Strength and cunning She’ll stay aloft — until; Inevitably — she loses. And must glide earthward. And lie there helpless, Lovesick for the sky.
John Brake
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:51 am

Re: Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by John Brake »

Okay... that all seems in order :) Either Wayne Hewison (CFI and the other Authorised Person) or I will need to see the PSTAR results before you solo with us.

You'll be required to perform a full flight review before we cut you loose on the aircraft (no surprise, there). Some dual flights to get you used to the glider again and procedures and you should be all set.
Kenneth Voort
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 8:15 am

Re: Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by Kenneth Voort »

For proof of passing the PSTAR, would eitherA) logging in to my Transport account at the club, or B) a current student pilot permit be considered proof?

Otherwise, I'll ask my instructor for it.
With grace and beauty, Strength and cunning She’ll stay aloft — until; Inevitably — she loses. And must glide earthward. And lie there helpless, Lovesick for the sky.
John Brake
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:51 am

Re: Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by John Brake »

I should think (A) is sufficient.

[Frustration Rant Mode ON]

A pet peeve of mine with the power world... you should NOT have a student pilot permit. Your Glider licence allows you to be a student in ANY OTHER aviation activity for training purposes (written right into the CARs 401.24(c) ). It doesn't matter that you haven't flown a glider in 25 years, your licence is valid with a current medical and you can train for anything in the air. Unfortunately, most power FTU's don't know this or don't care -- the Class 4 Instructor says, "The PTR says to write PSTAR and get a SPP at this point in the syllabus. That'll be $xx." ARGH !!!

Now, you DID have to write the PSTAR because you haven't flown PIC in many years -- outside of the 5 year requirement for currency. If you'd kept flying gliders and were current, the PSTAR would not have been required.

I've fought a number of power CFI's over our glider pilots carrying on into PPL training and the power FTU demanding PSTAR and SPP (PSTAR not required within 5 years of flying, SPP not at all). Trying to educate them is like herding cats.

[Frustration Rant Mode OFF]
Kenneth Voort
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 8:15 am

Re: Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by Kenneth Voort »

Excellent. Weather permitting, I'll be at the club on Thursday. Wednesday and Friday don't look good, or otherwise, I'll come up on the weekend and ask around.

[Defensive Rant mode ON]
Allow me to defend my instructor specifically, and all power instructors in general. I am not training with a class IV. It was important to me to train with an instructor who wasn't building hours until Porter/Flair/Wasaya/Perimeter came knocking. I chose to train with a one man flight school, where I could be assured that the instructor I started with would be the instructor I finished with. He is a very experienced class I with decades of instructing experience, who believe it or not, prides himself on his knowledge of the CARs, and runs his own flight school.

The GPL/SPP issue was something we were definitely unsure about. Indeed, he looked it up, in depth (very specifically, the regulation you are quoting), and wasn't satisfied with the answer he found there. So he called his TC inspector, who told him that a GPL is only valid as a SPP if the recency requirements are met. Then, given that I was required to write the PSTAR regardless, and the ease of issuing a SPP - which is quite literally valid the moment an instructor signs it (AFAIK) and costs nothing - it was not a hill he was willing to die on. He certainly can't be expected to risk his FTU and livelihood for something so trivially easy to overcome.

I think that if my instructor (a class I, person responsible for maintenance, and CFI as well), who prides himself on his knowledge of the CARs, got it wrong, then it is unfair to expect anything more from the vast seas of pilot mills and inexperienced class IVs. I would even argue that re-writing the PSTAR is not a significant burden - it's the easiest exam I've ever written, and I've written it twice. It's just not worth fighting Transport over this, who certainly seem to be telling FTUs that an out-of-date GPL is not valid as a SPP.

I humbly and politely suggest that a large portion of the frustration and fault you assign to the vast seas of inexperienced instructors, and to a larger degree the FTU's that hire them, would be better directed towards the folks at Transport Canada who are telling them this.
[/Defensive Rant mode OFF]

And by the way, if anyone's looking for a good power instructor, I can recommend one (as you may have surmised).
With grace and beauty, Strength and cunning She’ll stay aloft — until; Inevitably — she loses. And must glide earthward. And lie there helpless, Lovesick for the sky.
Doug Carman
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:10 pm

Re: Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by Doug Carman »

Can your instructor train on a C170B? In other words can he do tailwheel?
Doug Carman
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:10 pm

Re: Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by Doug Carman »

Forgot to mention. 2-33 is fairly available since many like to do checkouts in the K21. CLC flew once today! So just show up on the weekend and we can get you started.
Kenneth Voort
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 8:15 am

Re: Rejoining the Club and Taking up Soaring Again

Post by Kenneth Voort »

Doug Carman wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:17 pm Can your instructor train on a C170B? In other words can he do tailwheel?
He could, I'm sure. He's purchased a Decathlon that he plans to use to offer tailwheel and aerobatic training (both of which are difficult to find in SO, so, good market ploy there IMO). He's not very interested in tailwheel conversions, which, and I quote, "are boring, just flying around the damned airport all day doing circuits", but everyone has the right price and the right student.

But yes, he at one point owned a tailwheel and he's hoping to train on the one he's got on order now next year or the year after - more on the ab initio side than conversion side.

I'm happy to send you his details via PM.

The last time I flew in CLC was July 23rd 1996, with Al Baldwin. Sure would be nice to add another entry to my logbook. Good to know though that it's not in very high demand. I'm hoping to find someone on the forum who can take me on, but my plan B is to just show up at the field and ask around.
With grace and beauty, Strength and cunning She’ll stay aloft — until; Inevitably — she loses. And must glide earthward. And lie there helpless, Lovesick for the sky.
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